Where Western and East Asian Medicine Meet

In this episode, Barbara and Tsao discuss:

“A certain level of commitment and discipline is necessary to achieve a high level of health and

healing. With expert guidance and support in an on-going program format, patients can

achieve balance, stability, and wellness in their lives.” – Tsao Lin Moy.

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Dr. Barbara Hales:

Welcome to another episode of marketing tips for doctors. I’m your host, Dr. Barbara Hales.

Today we have chosen for our physician showcase of the month an extraordinary physician

named Dr. Tsao Lin Moy. She is a natural fertility expert trained in East Asian medicine, which

helps couples conceive naturally using her fertility protocols and Chinese medicine. She is the

founder of integrative Healing Arts in New York City, which utilizes Acupuncture, herbal

medicine, and energy healing to treat patients.

Tsao has over 19 years of experience in alternative and Chinese medicine and is a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist.

She is also the best-selling author of “Will I ever get pregnant.” The Smart Woman’s Guide to

get pregnant naturally over 40. Tsao is a contributor for Mind-Body green and has been

featured on Dr. Oz the list TV, the good day New York, W Net Metro Focus, Fox 26, Houston,

ABC 15, Arizona bowl TV, numerous podcasts, and publications like well, in good insider

Parenthood. It is not that parent’s best life online and multiple, multiple other places.

Welcome to the show. Dr. Tsao Lin Moy

Thank you so much for having me.

You have such an impressive history, but I was quite inspired by speaking

to you. And for those people that are not quite sure. Could you explain to us the health model

of Chinese medicine and East Asian medicine?

In the Western medical model, you’re going to get a diagnosis of your

problem, and then you’ll get a prescription or surgery. With Chinese medicine, the perspective

understands the natural state of health for the body and how to get it there.

Looking at all aspects of a person’s life, their genetic history, environment, state of mind, the foods they eat, the exercise, the activity, they’re sleeping. It is essential to know what they are thinking, what they are doing, and another aspect, the environment in which they’re in. In many cases, as humans, living in a kind of city inboxes is not our natural environment, and the feedback that we get also affects our health. This is where we’re detached from nature and having that connection to the world at large. There are different branches of Chinese medicine, but the big part is cultivating their health and longevity, and there’s a collaboration that is happening there.

Fortunately, we are starting to see just the tip of the iceberg,  instead of

just treating symptoms or diseases. Now we’re focusing on lifestyle changes, changes in our

nutrition, and energy levels to achieve maximum health and focus on prevention instead of just

treating symptoms as they arise. Would you say that the focus has been on Western scientific

medicine, their model, and how do you see that we’re starting to shift?

I see that it’s very challenging for women. Someone has been trained in

more of that model. I would say reductionist, like looking at this, is the problem, and then

you’re fixing it, versus really zooming out. One of the things with Western medicine is a very

scientific model. The elimination is looking at like very small and then looking at that is, that is

what it is, and disregarding more of the individual that is being treated and how they are the

ones that can promulgate their health.

We know that you will undergo bariatric surgery with things like overweight. Yes, they’ll lose

weight, but they’re still not healthy. All the other things that were in place before are still

happening. I see more in the functional medicine model, looking at things like the microbiome,

looking at different aspects that are not just like blood tests, and looking at hormone levels.

You’re looking at the things that influence that, and if the individual is not incorporated into it as a collaboration, then the results are very they’re mixed.

Having the person get excited about the power they must make changes will make a difference

because otherwise, physicians are stuck with their best with their tools. But those tools are just

not enough. And so, you must look at it. It’s hard to kind of like want to fit it into a particular

model. I see that there is a departure and looking now and mental health since we’re in May.

It’s mental health awareness that the latest is looking into, you know, plant medicine, in terms

of for helping with things like depression, PTSD, addiction, and, you know, end of life care,

right. And so, this is a very different way of looking at healing. Let’s say psychoactive plants

are going to affect somebody’s outlook. Then they can receive things like psychotherapy.

Let’s say someone says, I’m sold, I’m all in, and I’m going to take herbs to

improve my health and feel better. As we both know, some places may be selling herbs that

are not of optimal quality. How can a patient make sure that they’re getting what they think

they’re getting? Should it come from you or the physician? Is there a place that they could

check to make sure that the herbs are quality? How does one go about that?

There are two parts to this. One, there should be a brand of good

manufacturing practices. So, looking at the quality of herbs that are there. So, there are

several companies in terms of if you’re going to take herbs or what I would also say, if you

want to use something like herbs or Chinese herbs and formulas, you need to be working with

someone familiar with herbs because it is potent. And just because it’s natural and under-

considered like a food substance because it’s not pharmaceutical in Japan, it is a

pharmaceutical and quality of herbs coming out of Japan or pharmaceutical grade.

So very carefully regulated, highly regulated, and sourced depending on what you want to look at the herbal formulas that we call behind the counter, which means that you need to have a

consultation that you can’t just decide to go and buy them.

The other thing is that the model of medicine and the patterns when you’re using herbal

medicine are different. The symptoms may look the same from a Western model, but what

you’re looking at is the underlying cause? I answered a query. I don’t know when the article

will be out. Someone asked about an herbal formula for urinary tract infections and asked if it

didn’t work. And studying herbs, you’re, when you treat in East Asian medicine, you’re looking

at where the person is treating the individual? So, it’s very personalized. And where are they

let’s say, in the disease model?

Someone who has recurring yeast infections, you’re looking at underlying, is something going

on. Maybe they take antibiotics; it goes away, then it comes back. The issue is something else

continues to progress. So, you’re going to get into that cycle, and you’re treating the symptom.

And then, at the same time, we know that excess use of antibiotics destroys the microbiome,

and then you start to have yeast infections and other things.

This formula is only used when someone has blood in their urine and abdominal pain like severe infection goes seriously. And it’s not used for prevention. Because you like when somebody has a condition, let’s say in Chinese medicine would be damp heat. So, you got heat, and you got such dampness, something is happening. And the heat is coming through as you’re trying to get rid of it through the bladder. We know he goes through sweat. When you’re overheated, your body sweats, you have a toxin, it’s going to go through your bladder, or someone might get diarrhea. The body’s trying to expel it.

What will happen is that you’re going to have more of this heat accumulation in the bladder.

So, in terms of Yes, you want to increase to help the body get rid of the heat. But then you also

really need to identify where this issue is coming from—and then determine diet. Something

that they’re eating has continued to create that inflammation showing up in the bladder. And

so, there are many other things that you can do for prevention.

Once this acute situation has been addressed, you have to go back and look at other things and the person’s constitution. And for the most part, women tend to have more bladder infections because there are also hormones, right hormones, and other things. And so, you want to look at what that is in terms of a formula. If you’re going to use herbal formulas, you want to work with someone highly knowledgeable in the actual correct usage of the formula, and then it’s going to work. But if you take that formula instead of taking an antibiotic, you’re going to your mismatching use.

Most of us now have heard of Acupuncture to alleviate pain when a

person is in chronic pain. But how does it really work? And how does Acupuncture help with

fertility?

Acupuncture from western research stimulates the central nervous system

to release neural receptors, specific neuroreceptors, neurochemicals, which create a sense of

wellness and help the body go into parasympathetic rest, digest, and healing.

Ultimately, being able to heal your body needs to get into that space for everything to work. If

you’re in a state of fight or flight, sympathetic, what’ll happen is the body is going full steam

ahead and not in the rest cycle. We look at yin and yang balance. It’s the wave, the cycles, like

their circadian rhythm, is this aspect of our body able to heal. When someone is not healing,

right, under certain circumstances, after several weeks, they will naturally take the healing

process if someone is imbalanced and healthy. If it’s not taking place, we can know that their

body is out of balance right out of right balance and needs help.

Acupuncture will help bring that body to that space on the one aspect. Looking specifically at points, addressing the pattern, when I was talking about the herbs, looking at that person’s constitution, and how they’re experiencing is part of the very personalized, it could be more emotional things happening because they get upset. Then they get stomach acid or their back goes out, or they can’t sleep. So, looking at all of those things that affect their symptom, we’re looking at where the little pieces are disconnected and creating the dysfunction, very close to like the wheel on the supermarket card, if it’s slightly off like pulls everything off.

We’re looking at how Acupuncture will bring the body into its natural state of healing so that it

can heal. The interesting thing about acupuncture points is that they have different resistance,

the real ones, the electromagnetic field. So, we can look at that Acupuncture addresses our

own bioelectric field, which we have to look at in healing. This is why it’s energy medicine; all

medicine has an aspect of energy medicine.

Even the chemical exchange has an energy to it. The positive-negative ions are energy exchange. So, this is one of the ways that Acupuncture works. The body and the mind connection, when you feel your body going into that state, you can also identify when I’m upset, I can feel the blood rushing to my ears, and be aware of myself. So that if something is upsetting, I need to do something about out it, like really take stock of I have to make changes so that I’m not upset all the time. And without that experience, it’s hard for people to make the connection to make the change.

Getting to and that also physically stimulates blood circulation, movement of lymph, etc. And it

is part of the nervous system. Bringing the body, mind, and the nervous system to awareness

of the areas that need addressing, we also know that there is that healing window. And if it

does, the body will heal to a certain degree, and when it’s functional, it’s done. But it doesn’t mean that it’s in the best shape, which is why you can sprain your ankle, it heals to a certain

point, and then you’re able to walk on it, but it’s always a little bit of a problem. So being able to

heal fully is what we’re looking at and within that timeframe. And if it doesn’t, then that means

we need to look at many different things.

And then about fertility, particularly for women, it’s also a  big issue for men. It’s about

blood flow, stress, the inflammation, the emotional toll, you know, all of those things, the

microbiome, and Acupuncture as a nondrug. So, it’s something that helps the person to get

healthy, right because fertility health reflects overall health.

Looking at the model of if you want to get pregnant and have a baby have a healthy pregnancy have a healthy baby, you need to be healthy. That’s it’s not like all the numbers when we look at them, the hormone levels, the FSH, the progesterone, the estrogen, the lining, all of those numbers are saying something is off, that needs addressing.

Often it could be trauma from like worry trauma that gets stored in the body and creates a block, an energetic block. And that needs to be also released. So, the Acupuncture again helps a woman feel like she’s a bunch of body parts and numbers and how many eggs and timing and it’s beat her being connected in mind body spirit, I call it what in alignment, let’s say. And that is that that the timing, you know, that’s

the health, that’s all things must be in alignment. We’re looking for miracles. Having a baby, it’s

more than hormones, and it’s more than biology and hormones, that’s for sure.

Absolutely. Now, when a patient would come to me as an obstetrician and

expressed the desire to conceive, I would recommend three months of prenatal vitamins to be

in optimal shape. Before embarking on her journey. Would you recommend that a person start

with Acupuncture before trying to conceive as well?

Absolutely. I think women and couples, in general, should probably give at

least six months. Often, when somebody is ready, but their body is not like they’re there.

They’re not all to get like they’ve just arrived at like now I’m ready. And often, there are many

things that they have not been focusing on, like their overall health.

When we look at things like sleep, it’s like I catch up on my sleep on the weekend. And the idea that you can categorize certain things at certain times, like in your Google calendar, but that’s not the way the cycle is. And so at least three months, three to six months, and really, you don’t feel like okay, now the pressure, because when it doesn’t happen, since we’re so used to having everything immediately, I have to stop taking the pill, and then I’ll get pregnant. And the fact is, is that a lot of women have been on the pill since they’re teenagers and hormonal birth control is an endocrine disruptor.

We start to see; it’s not so much disrupting your body that affects your reproductive

reproduction. The other aspect is that we’re very stressed out. And stress is the endocrine

system. It will affect your pituitary, thyroid, adrenals, and ovaries; it’s all connected. And you getting to be stressed out and getting pregnant, they conflict. And understanding that

identifying what stress looks like because most people feel like it is an event.

The fact that every time your phone buzzes, you know, to say you have a message and you

get that little the constant low-grade stress that we’re under, including environmental, like

pollution, noise, poor sleep, all of those things contribute. And give yourself at least six months,

I would say even to a year, to get yourself into order to be then able to take it on. So, it’s kind

of like it’s like a marathon, you got to train, you know, over time to then be ready. I would say

prenatal vitamins, definitely a probiotic because the microbiome in the vagina and the gut will

make a difference. And that needs to be to reduce inflammation, and maybe their infections,

like many minor inflammations, will create a problem.

The issue, too, is our diet. It’s not just our diet is poor; the quality of our food is poor. We do need supplements we do. We have so much that is causing our bodies to be depleted that we really need to do that and eat well and get rid of plastics and eat organic foods and you know, get away from sugar and all kinds of things to kind of, and that takes time to get it out of your system.

So easier to make those long-term changes, and you look at it as longevity. And that’s also

Chinese men. It’s really like you’re looking to cultivate your health, not just for one thing. If

you’re having difficulty getting pregnant, and research shows that right, I’m sure you’ve read

those studies that look at more women who were struggling with infertility later had higher

morbidity. The issues and the problems with getting pregnant were kind of like a sign that there

was some other process that was happening. And then it shows later on that they have a

shorter life because there’s something else. So again, you know, getting back to fertility, health

is a symptom of overall health, and that’s what we must look at that.

I always say that stress is going to come out somewhere. If it’s not giving

you chronic headaches or hypertension, it’s coming out someplace. It’s just additional

symptoms of which infertility is one. Now you have a patient that comes to you who has not

been a very plan-ahead kind of a person. She understands that every medical plan is

individualized. But she’s stressed and anxious. She’s saying, like, I’ve tried to get pregnant,

you know, could be my age could be other things going on with me. But just so I have some

knowledge in my mind of where I’m heading, what would the average length of time be for

Acupuncture to say it was successful? Or it’s not going to work for me? Would it be three

months, six months a year? I mean, it’s not going to be like a one-shot deal. What would you

tell?

I’ve had women that have come at the age of 25, and they accidentally

found out that bought their egg reserve was like that of a 42-year-old. It’s not the end-all, but

it’s we start to look at biological and chronological age are not the same. For me, it’s at least three months of weekly sessions.

It’s not only that, working with me, you’ve got to work on your mind a called mind shift. There are a lot of exercises that I have women do because it’s terrifying. They’re terrified. They’re also terrorized by what’s on the internet. And one of the things I tell them is not only like cookies are harmful to you, like cookies on your computer and your phone, but you also got to get rid of those because they continue to perpetuate this fear that you’re not going to be able to have a baby.

I believe most women can conceive naturally.  Of course, if you’re 55, or you’re six, I mean, you know, everybody is, it’s as good a chance as anybody would have. I like to look at after three months, where are we have an excellent idea of like, what is going on? There is no such thing as too much Acupuncture because it is too little, you know, people go like, I want to do it for this long. And then I want it to work. And so, we’re Looking at what is the expectation? And how much I mean, of course, they’re participating.

So, if somebody is continuing to stay up late and drink their diet soda and want it to be fixed for

them, then maybe we’re not a good fit, you know, they’re there, they are expecting a result

that, you know, we’re going to increase the number of eggs that are coming out. That is not

really what that is that’s unnatural.

To kind of force to “biohack” the body forces it to produce more than it naturally does. That’s not the case, although sometimes more than one follicle is. I sit down with someone, and I look and their health history; often, when women come to see me, it’s they’ve been trying, and they’ve maybe gone through a round or two of IOI, or, and they’re about to go into IVF. And something tells them there’s something wrong with this model like I’m being told that my body is terrible or it’s this number, and it just doesn’t feel right, there’s something not there. And so, they come to me, and we literally, we have to like unlearn what they’ve been told, you know, they may go like, oh, but the doctor told me I only have X percentage of getting pregnant. And, and it’s like, that they can’t know that that’s somebody those are statistics based on someone else’s numbers.

We’re really looking at you, you’re you, and what you can do. Historically, you know, their

health history, like if they’ve had many infections, like a lot of yeast and bladder infections. I

also look at, you know, did they have mano? Did they have strep? Do they get sick, they have

allergies, all of those things will make a difference in terms of how can we help reduce and

get rid of the inflammation? And that takes time, right? So, a good three months, we’ll have a

good idea of, you know, response. And if we’re on the right track which we usually like things

start shifting pretty quickly. Based on their health history, some women they come in, they had

an ovary removed, or let’s say they have polycystic ovary syndrome, which is one of the most

common endocrine or infertility problems that’s on the rise. Right. So, we know that there’s this

is on the rise. And that means that we have to look at many different factors to help turn it

around.

Whether they’re going to go for assisted reproductive therapy or not, they need to be in the

best shape. I wouldn’t say a negotiation, but we have to agree and look at the expectations. And how much always they need to be doing homework. So, they are more willing than they

are to participate. The success happens. It does. And for me, it’s very exciting. And also, for

them, because they’re doing it. They’re doing it. I’m just facilitating I’m helping them using the

tools that will help them do what is natural for their body.

So, a few months go by persons now pregnant. Would you recommend

that they continue with Acupuncture to cut down on the possibility of obstetrical loss or even to

make their labor easier?

I work with women throughout their pregnancy. Important, the first trimester

because after worrying, so this is very worrying, like, I can’t get pregnant, I can’t get pregnant.

And if someone has all of that fear, they get pregnant and like, but what if I lose it? Or what if

there’s something wrong or you don’t like it. Suddenly because again, they’ve been so

concerned and been reading all of these terrible things, then they’re going through like just the

fear that they’re not going to be able to have a healthy baby, that there’s something wrong with

it that they don’t know the heartbeat.

The first trimester is the weighting of it. You drink water; you need to make sure you’re taking your prenatal vitamins and relieving your stress. You got to stay positive; we’re one step. We’ve already we’ve overcome the one thing that you thought maybe you couldn’t get pregnant. And now we know that’s not true. We’ve done some myth-busting.

We also know that if you are healthy and that the embryo is not healthy, the natural

thing is, the body’s going to recognize that and you may miscarry. The law that says the more the body is like, “Okay, this is good. This is not going to work.” then this is kind of what you want if it’s a recurring a constant recurring miscarriage, then we’re also

looking at other factors like clotting and many other things. And so, but the first try, you know,

it’s, it’s tough, and Acupuncture is great. It’s great for calming the system down to ensure that

there is a blood flow rate and helping as the hormones are shifting and nausea. If you’ve

children, you know, the first trimester, with all the hormones going around.

One of the telltale signs is nightmares. like crazy, vivid dreams. And that’s usually when someone says I miss my period for like, three or four days, it’s late. And I’m like, have you been having nightmares? And they’re like, yeah, I’m having like wild dreams. I’m like, okay, so you’re pretty sure you’re pregnant, I can feel on your pulses. But also, that’s a good sign because we know chemicals are moving around.

Acupuncture improves a person’s health.

Okay, not a pregnant person? Acupuncture, kidney stones, do they work?

Do they work to prevent them from coming back?

There are different kinds of treatments. With kidney stones, we’re looking

at what this has to do with the minerals, how they’re being broken down or not being broken

down. So, one of the things that will show up with kidney stones is a very tight lower back. And

so, we have as you know, we’ve got the quadratus lumborum. And then we also have the

psoas muscle, right, and the kidney is there. And so really tight back muscles can cause like

kind of squeeze the kidney in a way that and of course, that’s adrenals. That’s the adrenaline

that’s happening.

Acupuncture can help with the limb flow and just even physically helping the

back to relax. So, the kidney can do its job. The other thing too is with kidney stones, we want

to look at the diet, the different foods.

How can someone incorporate Chinese or Eastern Asian medicine as part of their actual daily health?

Dr. Tsao Lin Moy:

One of the things with East Asian medicine, it’s not just herbs and

Acupuncture. It is a way of thinking in terms of longevity. And looking at everything that you’re

doing is to help you stay healthier, positive outlook. So, if you’re looking like I need to exercise

to lose weight is a concise idea. Versus exercising every day, I’m increasing circulation. I’m

helping my heart. It makes me feel better over, I’m looking at mobility of my joints, really so

consciously choosing what you’re doing, because it’s going to make you healthier, right overall,

including foods or certain habits when you if you have a low perspective. You’re looking at that

the choices are a lot easier. It’s not like I want to treat myself to something, it’s kind of like I like

the taste. But I also know that this is like one of those things that are not good for me. And it’s

counter to my idea of health in the long life. Right.

And so, looking at every aspect and balancing like your family, the kind of work you do, if

you’re doing the type of work that you hate, either yet to look at it, change your mind about it,

that you love, the fact that you can work and that gives you income. You can do these other

things, right is also like a shift, or two into a kind of like not the victim right, and so then you

know, choices about your food about your environment. So, things that are always supporting

your health and wellness. We would say Chinese medicine like that’s the umbrella is

incorporating in these philosophies. So, it doesn’t mean that you have to start doing Tai Chi or

eating Asian food. I will say that this is about food because it’s come up a lot this week. And

that is when you look at ancient cultures, and you look at their diet that much of the way those

cultures eat is based on getting the maximum nutrition, right with the efficiency, and the food

combinations that are often things like ginger, garlic, ginger helps the stomach to digest. Garlic

is perfect for things like parasites, different foods, like in the miso, or the tofu, and the

vegetables, all those things they take, they’re delicious, but they also have their, their high in

nutrition.

And so, with keeping that in mind more, the American diet is about what tastes good. It doesn’t

necessarily have an idea of balance and resource and, environmentally, geographically where we live because it’s our environment. So much of that is not part of a Western kind of idea of eating.

So, keeping that in mind is to when you are eating is to be conscious about your food in a way that it’s more than just taste. But making sure that you are looking at the quality and balancing it and really understand the balance and looking at, you know, things like the different kinds of starches and stuff. So, some are more inflammatory than others. And so, you got to like, look, if this is eating wheat, or gluten is going to cause problems in my gut, which later on are going to cause problems with inflammation with problems with immune with arthritis down the road, or other things, then you need to make the connection. Right, because it’s hard for people to make the connection. And so that is something that I would say is like looking at all of those, you know, aspects in your life, you know, to do a good assessment, does it bring me joy? Does it make me feel better? Or is it not? Right? And so that is like one of those things? Yeah, and then the exercise too, we want to like exercise the ideas to increase blood circulation, lubricate the joints.

Exercise

I noticed a lot of people are doing heavy-duty exercise. And oftentimes what happens that they are addressing exercise like an acquisition versus if that’s the case getting better, better, better, they tend to use their adrenaline then to be to produce like to get that and similar going back to fertility. Many women kind of attack fertility, like they do everything else like getting the job getting the house, getting the degree and it’s like one of those things where you have to receive it’s a different kind of energy. And yeah, like the same with exercise. It’s like everything you do is kind of like not being extreme because we keep it very Western is extreme.

Extreme makeovers a video fasting, you know biohacking and it’s doesn’t matter if you’re using it, as natural ingredients. If you’re biohacking, you’re creating big stress on the body. And yeah, and then that has a counter to it. Right? And it’s only it’s very short, it’s very short-lived. Right? And so that would be what I would say is to look at you can contact me or look into East Asian medicine, there’s a life philosophy around it too, so you can incorporate it in many different ways, right to make the quality of your life much better.

 

Dr. Barbara Hales: We’ve been talking today with Dr. Tsao Min Choy, and I wanted to remind you that she has the best seller  “Will I ever get pregnant? The Smart Woman’s Guide to get pregnant naturally over 40” And they could get that book at Amazon, I assume? Yes. Now, you know, from listening to your episode, a lot of patients will say this is just the doctor that I need. How can they get in touch with you?

 

Dr. Tsao Lin Moy: I have a website, which is www.integrativehealingarts.com. I’m also on Instagram, under my name, which is I think it probably must get spelled would be @tsaolinmoy which would be T-S-A-O-L-I-N-M-O-Y.

 

Dr. Barbara Hales: That’ll be in the show notes.

  It has really been a thrill speaking with you today. I’ve learned a lot as I am sure a lot of listeners have. And really, it’s been an honor to have you on this month’s physician showcase. Thanks for coming.

 

Dr. Tsao Lin Moy: Thank you so much for having me. And I hope everyone enjoyed hearing a little bit about East Asian medicine.

 

Dr. Barbara Hales: This is another episode of marketing tips for doctors with your host, Dr. Barbara Hales. Until next time.