002 Travis Lee: You’ve Got Mail! Increase response rates through 3D mail marketing

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In this episode, Barbara Hales and Travis Lee discuss:

Why 3D mail is opened and read while traditional direct mail goes unopened and directly into the trash can.
How to use 3D mail to attack new customers, keep existing customers and reactivate your lost customers.
Proven techniques and strategies to consistently positive returns of 200% to over 3500%.

 Key Takeaways:

Americans see between 3500-4000 marketing messages each a day.
3D mailing gets over the big challenge companies face with marketing by commanding attention and increasing the rate messages are read, heard or listened to by the customer.
A direct mailing campaign using 3D mail may cost more than a flyer using regular postage but can be equivalent to the cost of publishing a glossy brochure.

“People respond to things that are fun, unique, interesting and different.” — Travis Lee

  Transcription

002 Travis Lee – You’ve Got Mail!
Increase Response Rates Through 3D Mail Marketing

Barbara Hales: Hi, this is Barbara Hales with another great episode that we have for you. We’re going to be talking today with Travis Lee. Travis Lee is internationally known as an expert in getting direct mail delivered, opened, and read. As co-founder and president of 3D Mail, he generates huge returns for thousands of businesses each year with his innovative and effective marketing strategies. His techniques and strategies consistently provide positive returns of 200% to over 3500% for his clients, wow. He is the go-to guy to many of the top marketers in the country for 3D Mail ideas and implementation. He spent the last eight years creating some of the most successful direct mail campaigns, specifically designed to give small businesses and entrepreneurs a leg up against the competition. He was the creator of 3D Mail direct marketing system through which his company provides specialized direct mail and ready to use sales letters to thousands of clients around the world. We’re lucky to have Travis Lee on the show today. Welcome.

Travis Lee: Thanks, Barbara. Thanks for having me. Excited to be on the call with you and all your guests today.

Barbara Hales: Okay, so I’d like to dive right in here. Could you please tell my listeners what is 3D Mail?

Travis Lee: Yeah, that’s a great question. When we say 3D Mail … so first off, we’re talking direct mail, right? So not email, not modern mail, I guess you could say. We’re talking actual direct mail in your mailbox. Specifically 3D Mail, we’re talking three dimensional mail. So, if you think about most of the mail that you get, it’s in an envelope, it’s a postcard. If they get really creative, they might send a little tube mail. I’m sure you’ve received those as well. But when we say 3D Mail, we actually mean three dimensional, mail that has length, width, and depth.

So, we do things like … well, so let me give you an example. So, we have what we call grabbers and enclosures. One of our main staples, and I’ll show it to you real quick, is a boomerang. You might be wondering why in the world would you send a boomerang? Well, we would include this in an envelope, so when you get the envelope, you can touch it and feel it and there’s obviously something inside. We send those to people that we want to come back to our business. We want you back, right? So those are grabbers and enclosures, right? So, we’re actually sending stuff in the mail like you know, so there’s a lump to it, a three dimensional piece element to it.

We also have what we call self-mailers. These things are really cool. You actually put your direct mail piece inside. I’ve got an example of one of those here real quick, let me … so this is what we would call a self-mailer. This is a real vinyl bank bag. So, as you can imagine, we used to have to take cash at the end of the day. Now most businesses aren’t cash based as much anymore. But real vinyl bank bags, got a zipper here. We actually take this and we put our message right inside of there and it zips closed.

We are talking about a whole different league of direct mail. We literally mean, when we say 3D Mail, three dimensional lumpy mail, dimensional mail. There’s people that have studied direct mail in the past, it’s been called that. But we literally put something besides paper in the mail to ensure that it gets opened and read. That’s the number one goal.

Barbara Hales: This is so great because so few people get mail nowadays. It’s usually just email. So tell me something, why did you start this business to begin with?

Travis Lee: That’s a great question. I’m going to say, “we,” a lot during this interview. When I say, “we,” I’m talking about myself and my father. My father and I founded this 3D Mail business as we know it now. However, let’s step back, oh boy, 20 something years now, mid to late 90s. Long before I ever started to work with him, I was still in junior high, I believe, back then. He actually had a business. It’s not really important what it was, but it was a business that sold to other businesses. We were a wholesale distribution business. Fancy way of saying we had a big warehouse full of stuff that we shipped in from overseas, for the most part, and then shipped out smaller quantities, your run of the mill wholesale distribution business.

Well, he had grown that business throughout the mid to late 90s using direct mail and using things like what I just showed you, boomerangs, bank bags. We’ve sent real money in the past, we’ve sent real dollar bills. We’ve sent … Barbara, do you remember those magic eight balls-

Barbara Hales: Absolutely.

Travis Lee: … when you would shake them up and they would tell your fortune? We sent magic eight balls. Yeah, so he grew that business in part because of the direct mail that we were using. So now let’s fast forward to about 2007ish or so. We had worked with a guy named Bill Glazer and Dan Kennedy, who I’m sure you’re familiar with. We were in a mastermind group. Over the years that we were in this mastermind group, they had told us … or excuse me, that we had shown them what we’ve been doing with direct mail. Like I said, the magic eight balls, puzzle pieces, real money.

People would always say, “Where do you get this stuff? What do you do?” Our answer was always, “Well, honestly, we go to the local dollar store, we walk up and down the aisle until we find inspiration, and then we buy as many as we can. And if they don’t have enough at that location, then we go to the six dollar stores that we can drive to.”

Well, after doing this for a year or so, we started thinking, “Well, we have a business. It’s a wholesale distribution business. We’re already bringing in boxes of stuff to resell the boxes. Why couldn’t we bring in things like a bank bag or a boomerang?” I’ve got some other little fun stuff here we’ll go through as we get some case study stuff. We went to this mastermind group and we said, “You’ve seen all this crazy stuff we’ve been doing. What do you think? Do you think there’s a viable business in this?” This was November of 2007. We could have walked out the door with orders. People go, “Oh yeah, we love how you did that. Get them and send us some.” So, 20 of our peers were saying that this was a no brainer.

Now, so let’s go to a spring of 2008, about four or five months after we had this idea. We went to a trade show and launched the business. So we got into it because we were sick of telling people to go somewhere else to buy stuff. That was like the biggest reason. This is bigger than a marketing lesson, this is like a business building lesson in that we knew we could take our core competency in business A and move that core competency to business B that on the surface is completely unrelated. I mean, the product lines were different, the suppliers were different, but how we bought, received, shipped out, how we actually made the money was almost identical. 80%, 90% of the process was exactly the same.

What we really wanted to do was find a way to complement the other business that didn’t rob from it, that didn’t cannibalize it and kind of latch on this whole new business. Smart business owners, that’s what they’re doing, looking for ways to grow their business beyond just getting more customers or more patients, that are looking to add on complementary things, whatever that may be, whether you’re a service business or a B2B business or B2C business.

So that’s kind of the long … I guess not the long, the reader’s digest version of it right there. We’re really good at it, we moved it. We started the business because we wanted to complement the other business. Now here we are nine years later, we’ve sold that other business completely. Now all we do is direct mail.

Barbara Hales: By the way, do you have that pill bottle? I think that’s great.

Travis Lee: Yeah, actually I do have one of those right here, yeah. So this is an actual pill bottle that you get filled at the pharmacy. I figured you’d want to look at this one, so I did grab it. We’re going to cure your headaches for whatever, we’re going to cure your ailments. So in the medical industry there’s like a thousand different ways you could do it. Most of our clients aren’t in the medical industry. Let’s say they sell printers and phones. Well, we’re going to cure your headaches for your outdated phone equipment. But in the medical practices, I mean, I have dentists use this, I have … actually, we have a ton of podiatrists that use this. We got involved somehow in a podiatrist group and so now we sell … oh, I don’t even know, tens of thousands of these to a handful of different podiatrists around the country. So yeah, really cool.

Barbara Hales: Yeah, that is very cool. Why does 3D Mail get such great results and improve the return on investment?

Travis Lee: That’s a great question. I’m glad that you said that with regards to return on investment, because lots of people, if they’re … what’s the right way to say this? If they know they’re direct mail, they often say, “What’s the response rate?” The response rate is important, right? We want to know for every hundred of these we mail out how many people are calling us. That’s vitally important. But what’s even more important is the way you phrased it, return on investment, because that’s all we’re concerned about. If we mail out a hundred of these, and it costs us $500, and we get one client worth $20,000, who cares what the response rate was? 1%, who cares? We got 2000 to 1 on our dollar.

So back to your original question as why does it increase your return on investment? Well, first and foremost … and this goes with any marketing venture that you want to do. I don’t care if it’s online, offline, TV, radio, email, direct mail, smoke signals, I don’t care what it is. If you want to get your marketing message heard or read or listened to, you have got to cut the clutter and force attention upon yourself, if that makes sense. So many people just assume because they do marketing, people are going to respond to it, they’re going to read it in the case of direct mail, they’re going to listen to it in the case of television or radio, or watch it. So the biggest hurdle we have to overcome as marketers is getting that message listened to, heard, watched, whatever it may be.

This is the great way to do it. Now a study I read a couple of years ago says that the average American sees between 3500 and 4000 marketing messages in a day. So as you can imagine, we’ve put … figuratively, of course, but we’ve put the blinders on so that we don’t see all of it, because if we responded to all of it and looked at all of it, we couldn’t get out of our driveway before it overwhelmed at us. So that’s the reason why it works so well is it commands attention, it gets over that big hurdle, excuse me, that we have in marketing, which is opened, heard, read, or listened to. So that’s the biggest thing that’s going to do for you.

Barbara Hales: But doesn’t that cost more to do than regular mail?

Travis Lee: Another good question. It can, but not always. Some of the stuff I’m going to show you here today isn’t any more expensive than a fancy glossy brochure that you might mail out that people get. They get these fancy brochures, and they’re embossed, and they’re glossy, and they’ve got 17 colors all over the front and back. So is it more expensive than a postcard? Absolutely. But it really kind of loops back to your last question on return on investment.

Here’s kind of the example I like to give. If you’re going to spend $1000 in marketing, let’s say we’re going to send out postcards and we’ve got a great postcard and it costs us … let’s just make the math easy, a buck a piece to mail out, so we can send out a thousand postcards. Well, if nobody responds, that’s $1000 wasted whether we spent a dollar per piece, $5 per piece, 50 cents per piece. Nobody responded.

So, what we think this does and what it’s proven to do over and over again is that if you narrow your focus down, if instead of mailing say a thousand postcards to a thousand households that might be interested in what it is that you do, let’s narrow that focus down. Let’s strip out all the men, for example, in that list of a thousand and let’s only send to women. Math says there are going to be about 500 left. Now, let’s strip out all the women who don’t have kids at home, let’s just say. So, we want women with kids and we’re a private practice, family practice doctor. Well, now we’ve got mom with kids. Now we can craft a message to mom with kids and we still have that thousand dollars we can spend in a marketing budget.

But now instead of sending something that’s a buck a piece, we’ve doubled our effect. We can send something that’s worth $2 a piece. Let’s say now we get from that list of 500, we spent our same $1000, we get nothing huge. Let’s say we get four families to eventually become patients of ours. Well, that’s infinitely better than the thousand dollars we spent where nobody paid any attention to it.

So I’m not here to tell you that costs aren’t real, that counting your dollars is not important. It is, we’re in business, cash is the king of any business. But when it comes to your marketing dollars, it oftentimes is better to spend more to less people and really send an impactful, powerful message than it is to kind of send what I call a shotgun effect, which is let’s just get everybody who could be a customer and let’s mail out one time with our same thousand dollar budget.

It all comes back to ROI, which is why the question asked previously was so great. If you don’t get any response on a postcard, the ROI is nothing. If you get one response on a pill bottle and maybe it did cost you quite a bit more, it’s that’s way more effective than anything else.

Barbara Hales: What are some of the more successful 3D Mail ideas that you recommend or that you’ve had in the past?

Travis Lee: Oh boy. So the easiest one that any business can do … and literally there’s not a business in the world that can’t use the strategy. It’s called a lost client campaign. I showed you earlier with the boomerang. Got it here still. So here’s what a lost client is. So, let’s take it to the medical practice world.

Let’s say I’m a dentist. We all know we’re supposed to go to the dentist every six months, that’s what they tell us we should do. So I’m a dentist and I had all of these patients … what month? We’re August 1st. Perfect. We have all these patients who have not been in since … let’s count back six months. One, two, three, four. Since February 1st. So if we had a list of clients or patients who were supposed to come in every six months and month six hits and they haven’t booked an appointment, well they’re lost. What happened? Why aren’t they here? They’re supposed to be here. So now what we can do …

And this goes for any business. I gave the dentist example because dentists have…every 6-12 months depending on the health of your teeth, you’re just supposed to go. Other businesses, it may not be quite as obvious, family practice, family MD, you want to see your patients every year for that yearly physical, make sure … Some of those things, they’re already ingrained in the business. Auto repair shop, perfect example, three years or 3000 miles you go get your oil changed. Other businesses you’ve got to kind of finesse it a little bit.

Let’s say you do skin type stuff and you have patients who have come in to a dermatologist and they haven’t been in lately. Well, is there really a … my ignorance, maybe there is, but is there really a time where there’s built in where they’re lost in the dermatologist office? I don’t know, maybe there is in the dermatologist brain. Well, that’s when you would send something like this. So what we do is it’s not just direct mail, we actually use all different kinds of media.

One of the first things we’ll do is we’ll get that list … again, let’s use our dentist example … of our patients who haven’t been in in seven to nine months. So, we could do this quarterly, for example. So we get patients that haven’t been in to seven to nine months, and we’ve got their email address for some of them, we’ve got the phone numbers for some of them, we’ve got their mailing addresses for some of them. So what we do is we use all those modalities we can use to reach out and get them reengaged.

One of the first things we’re going to do is we’re going to send maybe a couple of emails. “Hi Barbara, we haven’t seen you in seven months. You’re lost. What’s going on?” So for the non-responders now we’ll send the boomerang and say … and so for this now we’ve got the boomerang. It says, “Barbara, we want you back. Dear Barbara, we were looking over our past great clients and we found that you haven’t been in in over six months. In order to keep a healthy smile, you need to visit the dentist once every six months.” Then you give you all the reasons why you need to come in. That’s why we’ve sent you a boomerang, because we want you to come back, get reengaged, get back into the office. So now you can send an email, you send a boomerang, you send another email. Perhaps you have your people or even an auto dial service make outbound phone calls. “Hi, this is Dr. Hales at Dr. Hale’s DDS. We haven’t seen you in a while. In fact, we sent you a boomerang. We just want you to come back, make sure everything’s looking good.”

So you can have … the biggest thing is you can have some fun with this. Most people get ingrained in their head that marketing needs to be institutionalized. Yeah, dull, that it needs to be institutionalized. I’m a dentist, I went to dental school, I spent all this money to go there, I’ve got my big shingle hanging up in my office. I’m a doctor, I’ve got to do it professionally and institutionalized, if you will.

Well, frankly, people don’t respond to that. They respond to fun things. I don’t care if you’re mailing to the lowest level income level in your area or if you’re mailing millionaire movie stars to have that nose job. I don’t care what it is. People respond to things that are fun, unique, and interesting, and different.

Barbara Hales: … and the thing that’s also good is that people will tend to leave it on their desk. So if you have your name on it, it makes them keep remembering you.

Travis Lee: I can’t even tell you how many times over the years where …So one of the things we do is we mail the bank bag out to all of the people who request information from us. They go and do a marketing sequence and we send the bank bag out. I can’t tell you the number of times it happens. Weekly might be a little bit of an overstatement, but not by much, where people have told me, “Travis, I have had this thing sitting on my desk for, I don’t know, for 6 months, 12 months, 2 years. Finally, it was time to use it. And because this thing hadn’t left my bookshelf and hadn’t left my counter, it hadn’t left my desk, you were the top of mind when it came time to do it.” That stick around effect is giant.

Barbara Hales: Absolutely. So how else can you use 3D Mail?

Travis Lee: Oh boy. So we talked about lost client mailers. One of the ones I like, too, with the lost client mailer are these little worry dolls. I know, Barbara, you’ve seen these before from our office. They’re little worry dolls. We’re worried about you. So let’s see here. Let’s do a cold mailer. Let’s use our example and let’s do it for a dermatologist. Let’s say that we’ve got to let you know we can go out and get … and these lists are all available. I’m not making this stuff up as I go, you could go buy this list. You could go get a list of women over 50 with known skin disorders, problems, skin, they’ve bought Proactiv, they’ve bought other products to make their skin shine and look better. You’re the dermatologist and you’re going to help make them look like a million bucks.

Well, send them a little million dollar bill that says, “We’ll help you look like a million bucks.” Like I said, it all starts with the list if we’re going to do cold mailers. So the one example I gave you was in-house mailer inactive patient ones. But if we’re going to go do cold mailings, which direct mail is extremely effective for … and by the way, the higher up the income level you go, the more likely they are to look at respond and relate to direct mail versus the lower income. So you may be thinking to yourself, “I only deal with people making X amount of money.” Studies have proven over and over again, the higher up the income level go, the more likely they are to respond to direct mail campaigns. We’ll make you look like a million bucks. Just for example, we could use the worry doll.

I’ll give you a great example. I have a chiropractor who for many, many years that he did this thing called the Spring Fair, which unless you live in western Washington, the Spring Fair doesn’t mean much to you, but it’s the country fair, it’s the county fair, and it’s done in the spring. Duh, right? Spring Fair. So they would do it every year. He’s a chiropractor and he would do what most chiropractors would do. He’d go to the fair, he’d have his pop-up awning. As people walk by, he’d have his chair there with his massage therapists. Five minute massage if you put your name in the name in the hat so we can do some follow-up. Your typical outreach stuff.

Barbara Hales: Yeah, another reason to go to the health fairs.

Travis Lee: Exactly, exactly. One of the things that he did was instead of … so most people have these things. You’ve all seen it, right? There’s the guy selling the lawn mowers, there’s the RV guy at these big … street fair, same idea. Most of them hand out their tri-folded brochures. What happens? You end up with a big bag full of stuff. Well, so he switched to sending the pill bottle … not sending, excuse me, handing out the pill bottle.

So instead of handing out his typical three-page brochure that has all the great pictures and the name of the docs and who the nurses are, he actually would take this and he would put stuff inside of it, essentially put that same brochure in here, and he would put a little message on it. Like many chiropractors, his kind of overall big message is, “Get off the meds, get off the painkillers, but let’s cure the problem, not just mask the problem.” So his whole idea was get off the meds, get off the medication, get off the aspirin. Come in to us and we’ll fix you in a holistic manner. It’s been several years since I’ve seen the actual message. So now he would hand these out instead of the typical brochure.

Now again, imagine you’re at one of these events. We’ve all been there where you get this big bag of stuff, and you’ve got all the vendor’s stuff inside, and you shove it in, and then you get back wherever you’re going back to. If you’re traveling, it’s at the hotel. If it’s at the street fair or the county fair, it’s back at home and you dump everything out. Well, which one are they going to look at? It’s the same idea. It’s the same idea as when it shows up in your mailbox in that we want to stand out from all this clutter.

Another great example of a way to use this … and this is a referral based one using the same idea, the same pill bottle. I have an orthodontist. As you know, orthodontists rely heavily on referrals from general practice dentists. So what he’ll do is … every once in a while, he doesn’t do it all the time, but he’ll send this little pill bottle full of a Hershey’s Kisses, for example, to the front staff at the office with just a little thank you note. “Thanks for referring to doctor so-and-so’s office, we really appreciate it. Enjoy these treats.” He uses the pill bottle sometimes, sometimes he just uses a box. That’s just one way to stay in … if you rely on other doctor’s referrals to just kind of stay in front of them. Of course it goes all the way, you can do to other docs, you can do them to consumers. Wherever you need to stand out in a crowd, you can use this kind of idea.

Barbara Hales: Travis, where can our listeners learn more about 3D Mail? How can they reach you?

Travis Lee: You bet. Yeah, so we’ve put together a book, little 52 page kind of booklet book, if you will. It’s called The Ultimate Guide to Using 3D Mail in Your Marketing Campaigns. If you go to 3dmailresults.com/book, so that’s the number 3, the letter D, M-A-I-L-R-E-S-U-L-T-S dot com forward slash book, you can get that book. It’s has all of the products that we stock, but more importantly for you, it has ideas on how to use them. It’s great to have this stuff, but how do you actually implement it? So we give you headlines, we give you sample sales letters. It’s completely free, there’s no credit card. It’s not like it’s a free book but you got to pay $5 shipping them. No, you give me a mailing address and I’ll send you the book absolutely free.

Barbara Hales: That’s wonderful. Now another thing that I’d like to learn a little bit more about is that you say that when it comes to direct mail, that there are three steps and only three steps, which is great because everybody thinks it’s so complicated. If you do these three steps, you’re successful. And if you don’t do these three steps, you’re not. So, what are the three steps?

Travis Lee: So that’s a very good question. We’ve touched on one of them already. A, number one is the list that you choose to mail. Whether that’s a purchase list … so again, we’re going to go buy a list of women of a certain demographic with skin ailments, or if we’re a chiropractor, we’re going to go buy a list of men who are golfers who also site back heel or knee pain. Again, all of these lists are easily available for anybody to get. So it really starts with your list. A, number one, is list, list, list. That’s why I like inactive patient, inactive client mailers so much is you know they’re interested, you know they’ve spent money on what it is that you do. So that’s the best list is your in-house list.

So, you’ve got your list. The next thing you have is the offer. So what are we doing to entice them to come in? So very popular in the dentists field, like free teeth whitening or x-rays exam and cleaning for $79. That’s what we mean by the offer. What is it that you are dangling out in front of them to get them to come into your practice, to your office, to your place of business? A lot of consideration needs to go into that.

Are we going to do lead generation? So for example, let’s say we’re a very high end cosmetic dentists. Most of our stuff is done $50,000 on up. So we’re very, very intensive stuff, people who haven’t been to a dentist for years. Well, to go from a direct mail piece to come into the office and buy a $50,000 procedure, that’s a hard … that’s a big step. So we may do lead generation marketing and we may offer a booklet or a pamphlet or a book on everything you need to know about cosmetic dentistry, but were afraid to ask, things like that. So that’s called a lead generation marketing. Do we just want to get leads and then move those leads somewhere else now and then we can nurture them and grow them?

Or, like I said, in the case of the dentists who may be doing a new mover mailing … So we talked about lists. Now we’re going to get everybody in our geographic area who meets a certain demographic, and we’re going to do a new mover mailer, and we’re going to welcome them to the neighborhood. If we’re the dentist and let’s say we’re going to target families. Because if we get mom in, chances are we’re going to get dad and kids. So let’s give mom a boomer deal, a free teeth whitening with an exam and x-rays for X amount. So that’s the offer.

Then the third … so you’ve got your list, you’ve got your offer. Number three is what is called the creative. What do we send them? Is it a postcard? Is it a sales letter? Is it a pill bottle? So how do you answer that question? How do you know what to send?

The biggest thing you’ve got to do is you’ve got to look at your lifetime value of a customer. So, what I mean by that is in a conservative manner take what one new customer is worth, and let’s make the math easy. Let’s say a new patient in a dental practice was worth $1000 over their lifetime. It doesn’t need to be their lifetime, let’s say it’s over five months … or excuse me, five years or three years, whatever it may be. We find out, we crunch the numbers, okay, every new patient is worth $1000 direct to the practice. Now of course you’ve got costs in there, you’re not banking $1000, but that gives you a number to work with.

So now if we’re going to use our new mailer … so we’ve got our list of a new patient, a new mover, a campaign, we’re going to get people of a certain demographic who just moved into our area, and we’re going to give them a great offer of X, Y, Z to get mom or dad in, because we’re going to target families. There’s only 150 of these people every quarter, because maybe we live in a smaller town or a radius around our office. We want to keep it tight. Well, now you know to send a bank bag, for example, might be completely doable. If you get one or two new patients out of that universe of 150, you’re going to be way ahead of the game. So list A number one, offer number two, and the creative piece in which the thing you actually send is number three.

Barbara Hales: That’s great. That really is some brilliant strategies, Travis. If someone has a question for you, do you have an email that you’d like to put out for us?

Travis Lee: You bet you can. You can email us at info, I-N-F-O, @3dmailresults.com. Then if you go to that same website I gave you earlier, 3dmailresults.com, there’s a Contact Us form and you can give us a buzz. We also answer the phone. Imagine that. So if you want to call us, (888) 250-1834. (888) 250-1834. I’ve got a sales rep, she’s here 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time. We are more than happy to actually talk on the phone. We know some people aren’t, but we actually like talking to our customers.

Barbara Hales: Well, thank you so much for being with us today, Travis. My listeners are going to be really excited.

Travis Lee: Well, thank you so much for having me, Barbara. I appreciate it.

Connect with Travis Lee:  

Facebook: @3DMailResults

Website: www.3dmailresults.com/

Email: info@3dmailresults.com

LinkedIn: Travis Lee

Connect with Barbara Hales: 

Twitter:   @DrBarbaraHales

Facebook:   www.facebook.com/theMedicalStrategist

Business website:http://www.TheMedicalStrategist.com

Show website:   MarketingTipsForDoctors.com